A Board of Trustees Perspective on Vision and Strategy for Career Ecosystems

This podcast explores career ecosystems in higher education from a board of trustees perspective, featuring David Castagnetti discussing his experience as a trustee at Lake Forest College. Also, how trustees think strategically about career readiness within institutional mission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Career Ecosystem Era in Higher Education podcast, where we explore the systemic changes colleges and universities are making to ensure every student receives the career learning they need to succeed. My name is Jeremy Badani. I'm the CEO and founder of the Career Leadership Collective, a consulting company dedicated to helping higher education transform their career ecosystems. Today I'm here with David Castignetti and what a distinguished career journey. David has played a critical role in shaping some of the most significant public policy issues over the past two decades. He's a trusted advisor to Fortune 500 CEOs and their executive teams. He co-founded Melman Castignetti Rosen and Thomas, a leading government relations firm in Washington, D.C. He served as our chief of staff to committee chairman in the United States Senate and House of Representatives and was a senior leader on a presidential campaign. And more importantly, for our conversation today, he has a deep pool of wisdom about higher education from his service on the Board of Trustees at Lake Forest College and the Norman Mineta Institute at San Jose State University. Incredible. And I must say that in the short time that we have known each other, David's wisdom and insights for me have been both magnetizing and trustworthy, which is so hard to find. So today we're exploring what career ecosystems look like from the boardroom perspective. David, it's a delight to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Jeremy, uh, thank you very much for that kind introduction. The last time a person talked spoke that nice about me, I think was my mother. So I'm I'm honored. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Well, I'm genuinely looking forward to it. And uh we'll dig right in. You know, uh, tell us about your unique background and professional journey and and how you came into trustee leadership in higher education.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

So, you know, it it's interesting listening to your introduction, talking about career learning. I mean, I just as a to to step way back into the way back machine when the dinosaurs were still roaming the earth here. Um, you know, I as a student at Lake Forest College, even before I was on the board, I was a local and regional studies major, interestingly enough. And I had to do an internship. That was just part of my curriculum. And I graduated in 1984. And that internship led to my first job out of college. I did an internship for uh a gentleman, a congressman from Massachusetts, but then congressman from Massachusetts by the name of Ed Markey. Uh I graduated from college and fortunate, I was fortunate enough that they hired me right out of school because of that internship. Although it wasn't the game plan, just to be clear, I thought I was going to be a college football coach, but you know, that didn't, that didn't happen. So uh, you know, I was blessed and have kind of just kind of moved through my ranks, um uh, you know, working on public policy issues both on the hill, uh in advocacy campaigns, actual elected official campaigns, and to your point, started a company called Melman Castigneti, Rosen and Thomas. And, you know, it was fortunate to grow that to a $25 million business with 25 people. And, you know, uh, it's been a great run. And you know, I just recently sold out and sold to some great people who work for me, and that legacy kind of continues a little bit. So I I've been very fortunate, very, very fortunate.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, terrific. And you know, as you think about let's go into your board of your board of trustees work, and can you take us inside the mind of a board of trustees member? So when you're sitting in a board meeting, right? What what what topics rise to the top and catch your attention and why? And what makes something move from, oh, that's interesting, to, oh, this is something of strategic priority that we need to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah. Uh, you know, that that's a great, uh, great question, right? And I think, you know, the interesting thing, I'm gonna start off by saying one thing to think about when you're dealing with the board, whether it's you know, 20 people, 25 people, 30 people, whatever the structure is, right? Everyone has a different perspective on what's important, right? And and what motivates them, right? Like in my experience on the Lake Forest board, I bring a public policy communications background to it, and kind of my teaching background brings a student perspective to it. Other members of the board have much more of a finance background and are, you know, in the private equity business or financial service business, and they bring a very different light and they see the world very different than the way I see it. And having that balance amongst each person for the best interest of the school and moving the school forward is really interesting. And as, you know, folks who do this much more than I do understand that, especially in that liberal arts community, right, that changing nature that's taking place, it's really important to have that broad diversity of thought that takes place. So it's a little bit different, just to use as a comparison, the Moneta Institute piece. The Moneta Institute piece is very, very focused on people who are transportation officials and want to grow their career in the transportation space. Lake Forest has a much broader mission and a different worldview and a different set of competitors at the same time. And I think to me, that's the uniqueness of the individuals around the table that help drive the institution, right? The word that we always kind of, I think, use uh used around the boardroom was kind of, you know, what are the institutional consequences? And how are we helping the senior team kind of step away from their day-to-day responsibilities, but to help them to think about what's around the corner?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah. And it's really interesting. A lot of the I'll call it oversimplified conversations that I get into is people are wondering when we're helping them in a consultative situation, like, is this going to be a top-down or a bottom-up decision? You know, but one of the things you've kind of shed light on for me in the past is well, there's a layer that's maybe different than top-down or bottom-up, and it's the it's the governance and systems layer where there's quite a number of individuals that are coming together to think critically about a topic in order to make change. Can you talk about the the true governance layer of a board?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, I I you know it again to your point, right? These multi-layers, multi-different perspectives that people bring in. And if I uh the the example that that I would use if I may, is in 2014, Lake Forest made a very conscientious decision to start to talk about what they called productive and rewarding careers. And if you go to the website, that was kind of a vision of the school leadership, the board to help Lake Forest remain competitive and recruiting students, right? One of the goals at that time, Lake Forest in 2014, was roughly 1,400 students. Today it's about uh just under 1,900 students, part partially being from these career pathways that we've created, relationships that we've created with uh Rosalind, um uh Rosalind Franklin in the medical space, a big neuroscience program. Uh most recently created a minor in AI, and we can talk about our artificial intelligence from now until the cows come home and how the schools embrace it. And and and and moving from uh a liberal arts calls, but also to a business uh program where they have a strong finance program now, right? So you you you've seen that mix of kind of helping them think strategically, bringing practitioners in. They've created a a program um called Career Pathways that allows students to participate in um uh breakout sessions, uh like in the case that I participate in is in the law public policy perspective, where students get to meet practitioners and understand more about what's going on. But the school does that in a much broader sense uh in all you know all kinds of areas, health, business, education, uh as well. But again, as as the the board saw that need to, and I that's not fair, not just the board, right? You have to be in conjunction with the executive leadership of the school as well, yes, and continue to provide that vision to where uh the they believe the school needs to be, all right, in order to attract the best students possible.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

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SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah, it I mean it's been unbelievable. And and that, you know, that that enrollment consequence again and and guidance with the executive team and the board, right? It there's now about 119 countries that are represented at a small school like Lake Forest. It's pretty unbelievable. They've put a uh a ton of money into their athletic programs in order to recruit another set of students uh to come. The the the the always the interesting little thing I I think about is the the the football coach there and the athletic director in their wisdom uh started to recruit students out of Arizona. There are no Division III schools in Arizona, right? Lake Forest played clear uh played one of the Claremont schools in Arizona in a football game this year, the first Division III football game ever to take place in Arizona, right? So again, it's it's that creativity, the vision making, the dedication of of the personnel to make these interesting things happen, um, all contribute to the ability to school. And not to mention that they've also developed relationships with community colleges in the area to to to to be able to bring in students uh from the community colleges in order, again, to keep that enrollment number up and to say, hey, look it, here's the the the the school for you and the how we help you uh get better at your career, again, what you're you were you were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah. And just to put a fine point on this, I love, I love it. And it how important would you say it is today that career relevance of some sort, it's gotta be, of course, couched in the institutional mission, but then it's expli explicitly named as part of the the institutional mission.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

You know, I I on that Jeremy, I I I always think of two things when you're recruiting a student, you're recruiting a student and you're recruiting their parents. Yes, you are at the same time. And and the and the way I see it is, you know, you have children that are getting ready to go to college, right? Yes. Like you're gonna make a big financial investment uh in your students and your children. Why are you making it? How uh, you know, I get they're gonna learn about Aristotle and Plato and all that kind of stuff, but how are they getting a job at the end of the day? Right. And if I'm gonna invest this money, you have to kind of show what the end result is gonna be, right? And then measurement tools and uh that are taking place within the universities and colleges, you know, showing that outcome of here's the job, here's the profession, here's how much more you're making than somebody who didn't. And and the other side is at this point, not as we think about the vision of schools, right? The changing dynamic of schools has changed, right? The is liberal arts uh kind of what people want? Is it more technical training? You know, are is college right for everyone, right? That's another issue, big issue that boards are gonna have to deal with, right? And especially as we have a population decrease take place. Like how does that uh how does that play out? All kinds of interesting challenges for for small schools throughout the country.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, no small challenges indeed. And well, let's shift gears and look at you've been involved in some really interesting signature initiatives. Uh through your work at American University in DC, you've uh been involved in some substantial career readiness that brought value to to students. Can you share what has made some of these uh um niche programs uh impactful? And and how do you believe signature initiative signature initiatives like these can move from being excellent programs for a few to becoming embedded elements of a broader ecosystem?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, that that that's a good question. I I I've been very fortunate to have the opportunity to teach uh at American, both in the School of Communications and in the business school. Uh I actually did also did a semester at Denison University, which was different, kind of solid undergrads versus a mix of grads and and um undergrads. The the interesting dynamic to me is uh I feel my job is to bring what career opportunities there are for students, right? I I'm not the greatest academic in the world, I'm much more of a practitioner. Here is kind of how you create a public policy program, a message. Here's what you need to think about. And and I think one of the things I've learned through this as well, and again, to benefit the students, is not only are they getting my wisdom, but you know, I'm picking up the phone and calling my friends to come in to a class and say, hey, give me an hour of your time and talk about how do you develop a communications plan? How do you develop an investor relations plan? What does it mean? And and it it's amazing. I always find there's a little tension between the academics and people kind of more like me, like, oh, why are you bringing in lecturers versus kind of just doing it yourself? There's a point. I I'm obviously more than happy to do anything myself, but the other side of it is there's some people who really know a lot more about this from a practical perspective than I do. And having that opportunity to bring in uh, you know, uh a Gen Saki who's been able to sit at a presidential podium, that that's that's a big deal. And it's a big deal to the students uh at the same time. And and to me, that's like I I feel my job is to to challenge people to think differently and to move things differently. Like we're, you know, again, just in the universe we live in, we're in a very disruptive universe that we live in right now, right? And you you know, you need that balance, the institutional balance, and people who are willing to, you know, challenge. I put that in quotes for for uh listeners, check, challenge the system a little bit just to think differently and look at the world a little differently. Um, and you know, somewhere in between, that's always the right answer, as my mother always said, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

That's a beautiful picture of what I've been calling curricular infusion of career learning, right? This this extra layer of uh of sense making that uh that that that is there. And what have you observed about when it comes to students? What have you observed with them when you're not just speaking in academic terms, but you're bridging that gap and helping them make connections? Uh what have you observed in them about how this career infusion is working?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah. Um here's the to me, the honest answer is they soak it up, right? Whether they're kind of juniors or seniors, or kind of first year or grad school, they they they're they see a practitioner and they're like, wow, that that could be me, you know. And and the the one thing that that I've seen with the students is it it is funny. I uh you'll invite someone in, and some people are better at it than others, obviously. And people who I say, oh, I didn't think that went very well, the students loved, right? And the ones that I think went great, the students like, yeah, okay, that was okay. You know, so it's also interesting. Like, how do you make that individual connection, right? This goes a little bit also kind of bottom-up, top-down kind of discussion. Like, if you can just change one student to think a little differently, or something connects with him or her as they're sitting there, and all of a sudden they're like, wow, I can see myself being that person. Like, to me, that's super exciting. Um, and you get to, you know, to tie it back to the board side, like you get to take those experiences back to the board and say, look, it here's what's connecting with students and kind of on the practical side, right? It is kind of one of those things. And, you know, again, back on the board side a little bit, you know, the one consistent thing that comes up in every board meeting is also fundraising, right? And whether that's for a new program, a new academic program, a new athletic program, an endowment, like whatever it is, right? Like you want students coming out with a great experience. So they're now part of that fundraising ecosystem that that the school needs in order to continue to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah. That's interesting that you mentioned that. You know, in the over the last 10 years, there have been a few junctures where there have been like large fundraising gifts toward this topic of career readiness. Mostly over the last 10 years, it was toward a bricks and mortar career center. And now I can count about seven or eight in the last six months that are between two and fifty million. Toward just building out the infrastructure of a career ecosystem. So this is this topic is, and I think it's bigger than any of us know as far as its relevance in higher education. And uh I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned that fundraising layer because it it we well, we have to we have to have the money to do the initiative really if we're going to serve you know millions of students to help them prepare for the workforce, we have to have it.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

So and and that you know that that's a great point because you know it as a board member or a senior person on the team at a college or university, that like the the the money you're raising is not just to to teach students, right? It is that life piece that's also important to your point. If you're investing, you know, $50 million in your career center, there's a reason you're doing that.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

But it takes money to to to to make that happen, and people need to kind of be committed to it and making sure that it's the right program and the right way to do it, you know. And everyone's a little, and again, the hard part on career is we're all a little unique, you know. This is uh, you know, as you know, I'm I'm a huge sports nut. You know, this is where I always say, you know, this is a yogi berra moment in careers, right? When there's a fork in the road, you take it. Like you don't know, like I was saying just about myself. Like, I thought I was gonna be a college football coach. I didn't realize I was gonna be in the public affairs business for 35 years, right? Like you just kind of took it because it was there and challenging yourself. And that's to me, that mission of the board is to kind of provide those opportunities to students and to faculty to say, hey, look at let's look at this a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yes, yeah, wonderful. Well, let's talk about the future of higher education a little bit. I know you you hinted at uh some of the disruption that's happening, but let's look at the future instead. And if you look at the future of higher education, what do you believe colleges and universities will need to be doing regularly that they're not doing as much now?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Um I I think one of the the major challenges, if not the major challenge, is figuring out how to incorporate AI and not making it an evil thing. Like it's there, it makes life easier. You know, I I I will admit this, I you know, I use perplexity all the time because it helps me get my thoughts across and what does it mean for the benefit of the student, the benefit of the university? To me, I think that's some of the the biggest piece. I think the the the other thing also is just kind of, you know, I I hate using this word, but I I couldn't think of a better one. Is you know, how how do people continue to operate in this new real world that we're living in, right? And what are the challenges and mindsets that we have? And we're still going to need people to interpret AI, and we're still gonna have to have this human connection that's there. That those feel like to me some of the bigger technical challenges while trying to maintain, kind of to where you were saying before, the the mission of the school and the academic mission uh of the school as well. Like that is the balance that there's forever the fundraising challenges that I think every school has to meet and stay on top of as best they can. And I think the last thing I would say is how do you continue to recruit and retain top-notch uh personnel? Yes, uh, both running the institution, but also in the classroom every day, right? And there's a to me, there's a a real challenge in, you know, between salary prices and places we expect our teachers to live, and you know, they also have their own families and uh that they have to support. And how do you maintain that ability to do it? That that to me feels like the three challenges that um the schools have to face, especially smaller liberal arts colleges, I believe, really are kind of in that that boat.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yes, yeah, wonderfully said. And well, as a final question, if you've you've been up close with a lot of college presidents and provosts, and if you had to speak to them about just final advice to offer on how to frame the career ecosystem in the context of their institutional mission in a way that resonates with their governance and their culture, what would be your final piece of advice there?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

I you know, my first my final piece of advice was make it a prior, make it one of your five priorities that you care about and make sure that's reinforced with the executive leadership team every day. Um you know, it it it sometimes, you know, the mission and the vision have to come from the top. And if you're talking about it as the leader, guess what? People are gonna pay attention. That would be kind of my mighty piece uh to to think about. Fantastic. David, thanks for the conversation today. Jeremy, thank you very much for having me and really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

You have a wonderful day. And you can catch all the episodes and subscribe to the podcast in our newsletter at career leadershipcollective.com slash podcast. As always, if you've not yet ordered the book, the Career Ecosystem Era in Higher Education, we encourage you to do so and send us your questions, your thoughts on what's working in your career ecosystem, challenges you're facing you'd like us to address to podcast at career leadershipcollective.com. We are building a new era together. Bye for now.